bake with jack feeding starter

Without the real experience, much of the science simply does not make sense....of course there are exceptions to this as we all learn a bit differently. 20:00 Feed starter . I only feed my starter when baking, so I don’t have to discard much or any at all. For now just change one thing, take the water down to a manageable level, and work your way up only when and if you feel comfortable! Get those down and you are 80% to making great loaves. The bottom will be full of bubbles and large uneven holes. Bake bread, of course! The wetter the dough and the longer you stretch out the bread making process, the more moisture the flour will take on, and so your finished bread will retain it’s moisture for longer resulting in a longer shelf life. Commercial yeast brings about a certain predictability in proofing times but sourdough can be just about anything dependent on the qualities of any unique starter. Finally for a baker new to sourdough,  I stick by my advice of using a starter that is near its peak in order to benefit from the potential rising power of that starter without having to wait for an eternity for that process to take place. 09:50 Add the salt and knead. We could easily be talking about drastically different ingredients and recipes and that too would account for the differences we are experiencing. Adding flour to get the "right" consistency is not really the point. Here’s how I maintain my starter (well, starters, now that I’ve added a grape version to my stash; yes, at the time of publishing this post, I have two now): I keep a small jar of starter in the fridge and typically use it once or twice a week to bake. An oily focaccia for example always has a thinner, softer crust than a baguette for example, and so, if I was making something crusty I would avoid oil. I've been using that recipe for the past two years with consistent success. or when it has peaked and ripe after a feed ? Meanwhile can anyone please tell me how/when should i use the starter ?Should I use the starter just after feeding it ? No other “baker” does that whether in print or internet ” — Paul. All these things will require trial and error on your part to get just how you like it, and if you're comfortable doing that then have a play! Discard all but 50g of your sourdough starter (this discarded starter can be kept in the fridge and added to pancake batters or used to make crumpets). 08:00 Remove starter from the fridge. One or two feedings is all it needs. Should I try to increase this as my handling skills improve, to get to 310g? I find it’s also very floppy and difficult to shape. Bread Tip 55 - What is a Banneton Basket? 4)  In my search for truly sour SD (which I love as much as I do a good sweet SD bread) I have learned that using old starter - sometimes even a day or two AFTER it has peaked (and left at room temp for that day or two!) First loaf - want it to be good :-) atleast edible. BUT... remember, your starter is living organism - bacteria and yeast, in simplest terms, are living on (i.e. Like the flower pot for example. So much to learn, so many different approaches, ideas, information (not a little of it, while well intentioned, is contrary to the research and experience of the "masters"). Here’s a tip: If your dough turns out too wet to shape up, cut your losses and make the best focaccia you’ve ever eaten! I'd love to hear how others manage feeding/baking schedules! Once the sugar and starches from the feeding have been consumed, the starter will then start to deflate again. after a second proving, and it collapses. Add equal amounts of flour and lukewarm water – around 200g is … With a few feeds, your starter will be back in action: bubbly, happy, and ready for your next baking adventure. It sticks to everything; my work surface, my hands, my banneton, my peel, everything!I’ve had to stop turning it out on to my bench because of it sticking; I just do the stretches and folds in the bowl, because spraying the surface with water each time just made it wetter and stickier. https://www.theboywhobakes.co.uk/.../5/30/how-to-make-a-sourdough-starter You get busy unexpectedly and need to stop feeding it daily. If you do that though, you'll need to adjust the flour and water in the recipe to make up for the missing 75g of starter (ie 37.5 more water and 37.5 more flour in the final dough recipe). only to dicover (with the help of others at TFL) that,  damned if I wasn't STILL overfermenting! Feed starter with flour and water: If using a scale to measure ingredients, combine equal amounts by weight of starter, water, and flour. Jack, you give the best, user friendly, advice. I don’t do it, and the reason is that I feel like it would affect the crust. 20:00 Feed starter . Then add 125 g plain flour and 125 g water and stir well until evenly combined. If you only bake once a week then feed your starter again so it has a supply of food then return it to the fridge after a few hours. Remember to keep track of the time FROM THE MINUTE YOU ADD THE STARTER to the flour when you are first combining the ingredients for the dough, to the minute you take the bread out of the oven. Then add some water for the next time, perhaps 20 grams or so to start with. It's fun, and I like the bread. The concern of most students was  that they did not bake a brick but instead produce a lighter loaf. One issue I have is if I try to slash the dough I do it just before I put it in the oven, i.e. Feed the starter 8-10 hours before baking for less sour loaves. I noticed that your recipe puts the water in straight away, whereas other sourdough recipes only add the water to the oven part way through the bake. Then, I’d expect there to be a slight change in the consistency when adding those things and, depending on the quantity added, adjust the hydration rate if I think I need to. From my own work and in the course of teaching others, I found that the concern and difficulty was often the exact opposite of what you describe. I have baked many loaves virtually within the realms of my mind - the question is about bread baking in real :-) hope will be able to let down my guard soon. :-) Hey Jeff, I have my head reeling. Seal the jar and store at room temperature or in the fridge. I believe so! If using measuring cups, combine 1 part sourdough starter, 1 part water, and a little less than 2 parts flour. 6)  Most beginners overproof their breads. Ready your sourdough starter for storage. It’s too wet and sticky! 09:50 Add the salt and knead. Add the water flour and salt and mix it together into a dough with your dough scraper. 68: How to make a Sourdough Starter - Bake with Jack - YouTube Dough rises faster in the warmth, and so bringing it away from a warm place will always mean the second proof will be slower because of the drop in temperature. Does the type of yeast I use, fresh or dry, make the final bread taste any different? Well, remember, the marvelous thing about SD is that, unlike breads made with "store bought" yeast, its a "slow" process: i.e. How does that work and should that be something I need to be doing? FYI if you want sweeter breads, use your starter BEFORE it has peaked; if you want more sour bread, use it after it has peaked. advice?? Thanks! The fact is I am baking great looking and tasting bread. That, and the condensation on the outside of the bread, are what are needed for a crunchy crust! A Sourdough Schedule . What Feeding a Sourdough Starter without Having to Discard Looks Like for Me. To bake sourdough bread? I get some good results with sourdough and yeasted loaves but often the crust, which I can hear crack as it cools, goes soft. 1. All flours are different, make sure you are using strong white bread flour over plain flour. 13:25 Final proof. Oh what a wet sticky mess! Yeah... SD starter strength heavily impacts fermentation, but so do time and temperature (even more, in my humble experience). I only feed my starter when baking, so I don’t have to discard much or any at all. 10:00 Bulk rise . You all MUST know by now that when I make bread at home it has to be three things. Should you consider these ingredients as part of your hydration rate? (This video will help). 200g flour + 200 grams water + 140 grams starter = 540 grams of starter. Then after enough practice you'll be able to handle a wet dough like a pro, or at least you’ll discover the level you are comfortable with. I recommend keeping 100g of dough from a loaf in the fridge in a covered container, then adding it to your next batch a few days or even a week later. Let it rest, covered, until it becomes very bubbly and healthy looking. If you are still struggling take the moisture in the recipe down to a more manageable level for you, and work your way up when you feel comfortable. If you are struggling with a wet dough here's what I would do... First do some bread maths to work out the hydration rate of your recipe. Thank you ! Perhaps a metaphor for ourselves in times of crisis, starters are how bread was born some 10,000 years ago. 22:00 Place starter in the fridge. I've maintained the same sourdough starter for years, refreshing it with 20g mature starter, 100g flour (usually a mix of 50% white flour and 50% whole rye or 50% freshly milled whole wheat), and 100g water1 twice a day, every day. TIP: The presence of a brown liquid layer atop your starter, called hooch, means your starter is starved. What Feeding a Sourdough Starter without Having to Discard Looks Like for Me. Please could you tell me, what size banneton basket are you using for a sourdough loaf? is by using yeast that does not have as much leavening power and thus will take longer to get the job done. Yes, it will still change the recipe but in a much more controllable way. If your dough is collapsing, then you are probably sashing too late on in the proof stage when it’s too fragile. the fermentation process (and thus leavening/rising) with"wild" yeasts occurs more slowly - primarily as a result of the lower yeast counts in homemade "wild yeast" starters vs. active/dry commercial yeasts you buy at the store. Feed the 3 oz of starter with 3 oz of all purpose flour and 3 oz of water. In the warm months, your starter will show signs of life on day four, sometimes even by day three. For instance, 50 grams of starter, 50 grams of water, 50 grams of flour. 09:30 Start the autolyse . You now have 9 oz of starter. A wetter dough will bring different characteristics to the bread. A healthy starter is very crucial as advised by Baking with Gina. Leave the 3 oz starter at room temperature for 12-24 hours. The process is very similar to feeding a starter to keep it active, except that it requires two separate feedings. Keeping the outside of the loaf softer for longer and allows the dough to puff up for higher during the initial part of the bake before the crust sets it’s shape. Useful video: Bread Tip 108 - 11 Things you can Bake Bread in.... The bread recipe I follow uses the same quantities that you used but says knead on a slightly olive oiled board, it then says leave to rise in a lightly oiled bowl. ", Bread Tip 72 - The Room Temperature Water Rule, and The EXCEPTION. There is no point making a wet dough to get a specific texture of bread, and then adding flour to make the consistency manageable, because then it's not a wet dough anymore and you lose the characteristics. Thank you in advance! Yes they are liquids but they don’t make up part of the “liquid” element in the recipe. 10:00 Bulk rise . Feed the starter with flour and water every 8-12 hours using one of the following methods: If using a scale to measure ingredients, combine equal amounts by weight of starter, water, and flour. For example, if you want to bake bread on Tuesday morning, give the starter the first feeding … Hi :-)My new starter of 15 days seems to be ready. Feed the starter as described in steps 1 & 2 (see note). Keeping back a portion of your dough for the next batch is an easy way to improve your bread's flavour and texture the next time around with almost zero effort. Also, strong white bread flour is never the same as the next strong white bread flour, so trying a different brand might be worth a shot later down the line. Meanwhile can anyone please tell me how/when should i use the starter ?Should I use the starter just after feeding it ? Your bread's abilitiy to hold onto it's crunchy crust is down to how well your oven holds the steam during baking. If there is inconsistency between the two rise times it sounds like you’ve changed the environment (taken the dough from a warm place to a cool place) OR started off with warm water in the beginning, so that as your dough cooled, the rise slowed. Saturday. I watched your sourdough 101 video and learned so much. Let it rest at room temperature for about 12 hours, until bubbly. Should I use the starter just after feeding it ? I hope you find what you are looking for, and if you’ve got a question send it to me at breadsos@bakewithjack.co.uk. And if you keep doing it, batch after batch, the flavour, texture, character of your bread will continue to improve time after time. If the mother starter is not strong, the bread dough will not rise a lot even though the starter is used at its peak. This does solve my primary question. Keep doing what you are doing, get comfortable with it and naturally I feel you will begin to play with the variables. Simple, when you add the starter to your bread recipe you are mixing the starter with, uhh... yup... flour. & Bread Tip 89 - DO NOT "Knead on a Floured Surface!". My loaves are the weirdest looking specimens ever! Whenever I used to be in that pinch and had to use dry yeast, my bread always tasted like it is lacking a little something, like it was not as great as it could have been! I guess this advice will go a long way with me. Adding oil to a recipe will affect the final bread, but unless you are using a LOT of oil then I don’t think it will. Storage of a few weeks to a few months. As for when to use the starter itself, I like to feed mine about 12 hours before usage, not so much for flavour, but I will know for sure that my starter is done chowing down and is ready to bake bread. 15g starter … Was chagrined to discover the primary culprit was simple overproofing - despite bulk and proof times as low as 1/4 (yeah one fourth!) I use 1kg oval banneton baskets, the dough for a sourdough loaf from my recipe will weigh around 850-880g for a loaf annd will fit just right. You get busy unexpectedly and need to stop feeding it daily. Thank you Cerevisiae & AbeNW11 . Also, steam is there to allow us to bake on a higher temperature for longer without the loaf taking on too much colour. It just feels nice, it's more tactile. Thank you once again. So I have stopped doing it. I won't get into the chemistry - suffice it to say that the primary "flavor components" (aside from flours, etc.) Learn more about Bake with Jack's favourite products. 2. If you see anything inappropriate on the site or have any questions, contact me at floydm at thefreshloaf dot com. Win! Hi Jeff,  Gotta most respectfully disagree. Does the steam affect the way the crust forms on the bread? Feed the starter as described in steps 1 & 2 (see note). Shop recommended products from Bake with Jack on Amazon.co.uk. starve the little yeast beasts by not feeding them for too long a period - typically DAYS, not HOURS! Yesterday was baking day. Susan's "Norwhich" SD bread is a good one to start with. Repeat as necessary, every 12 hours, until you notice the starter doubling or tripling in volume in 6 to 8 hours. For those who might continue baking with sourdough, a complete comprehension of the entire sourdough/fermentation process is the next logical step. May be a silly question, but I am interested in making a different loaf than a normal tin, or plain loaf. Reply CH April 16, 2020 at 9:46 pm. Measure the amount of fresh starter you have in the container. Use your starter long after feeding and just before it peaks. or just before when it requires a feed ? Because it’s not packed with artificial additives and preservatives! Its really hard to understand what is happening and why (i.e. You will be amazed at how easy it is to take more time than you realize (we all do when first starting out as we are not yet organized... Where is that pan? I use steam at the beginning of baking because I am trying to stop a dry crust forming in those beginning stages. This is when you know that it … If you get a great first rise from your dough, but your second Rise at 45 minutes has not risen very much at all, do you just keep waiting until the second rise actually rises? How should I have accounted for the granola? Probably not… Oil used in kneading and in the bowl as your dough rests is there to stop things getting too sticky. By Tamar Adle r. May 18, 2020. Not all breads are the same. There are a few things you can do to make bread that keeps moist for a little longer. Bake bread, of course! Sign Up. To check, I wish to bake the first loaf. I shape my loaf, put it in the basket and stash it in the fridge to stop/stall the puff. 08:00 Remove starter from the fridge. In making breads with other liquid ingredients such as melted butter, honey or molasses. Take a look at your recipe, and if it calls for 150g of starter, feed your starter with 75g of flour and 75g of water so that the total volume of added ingredients is 150g. This generally takes 4-5 hours but the time can vary based on dough temperature and room temperature. The very short answer is, your sourdough starter generally will be at its peak anything between 4 and 12 hours after feeding. But if you go over a week, you’ll need to feed your starter once or twice before using it again. Up the water when you are ready and then you'll discover for yourself truly if “wetter is better”. Sign Up. I got this (again) in the face after moving here to Indonesia and blithely assuming my past experience would allow me to immediately begin baking great SD. I’ve reduced the starter before and fermented it all day while I was out or overnight and it's come out more acidic. My new starter of 15 days seems to be ready. Puffy, a good shape, and above all Practical. On the basis that “Wetter is Better?” or do you not believe that? When you pull off 8 oz of fed starter for the recipe feed again and refrigerate. If it's been stored in the fridge, take it out, and feed it with equal parts unbleached all-purpose flour and lukewarm water. For instance, 50 grams starter… 2)  So... why do you NOT have to use at the point its peaked? I would very much appreciate some input to improve the taste. The instructions for activating your sourdough starter and maintenance feedings, call for discarding all but ½ cup starter before each feeding. I feel like I should add a bit more flour so the dough is not quite as wet, so I can give it the tension it needs when I shape it, or do I need to get the moisture right from the start? I left the baby starter out during five warm days, then put it in the fridge for five more. 3)  Okay.. so why would you not want to use a starter when its at it's peak and thus has maximum leavening power for your bread? I let the loafs ferment for 2 days. There are certain things that I would and certain things that I wouldn’t, but sometimes it can be hard to draw the line…. YES. My starter tends to start rising in about 2 hrs after its feed and doubles in around 8-12 hours and then rises to a more 1/3rd in another 2 hours and then steadies itself. To begin your starter, mix 50g flour with 50g tepid water in a jar or, better still, a … What container should I use to do my bulk fermentation in? Contribute. I use the least as I can possibly get away with, and try to flick it across the table to cover as much surface as possible with a very fine amount. How to prepare sourdough starter for baking. 22:00 Place starter in the fridge. For a flour pot I'd probably go with 85-100g of dough, the same amount I would for a medium sized roll. 09:20 Prepare the ingredients. Meanwhile can anyone please tell me how/when should i use the starter ? To conclude - Since i do not want a sour flavor, should I use the starter after about 2-3 hours of feeding it ? To bake with starter, you’ll want it to be active. Combine an "overripe" starter with refrigerator retardation and you can achieve truly sour SDs. Most of my bulk fermentation times are in the 2 - 3  1/2 hour range but I do make a Vollkornbrot that has a bulk time fo 20 minutes. Here you’ll find a selection of questions sent to me by you, and the answers I sent back including a few useful links to content that matches! When you're ready to bake with your starter, you'll need to take it out 2 days before baking and grow the starter with the following steps. Here’s how I maintain my starter (well, starters, now that I’ve added a grape version to my stash; yes, at the time of publishing this post, I have two now): I keep a small jar of starter in the fridge and typically use it once or twice a week to bake. Why does home baked bread tend to dried out a lot quicker than store bought bread? Get the feel of the wetter dough and see how you feel about it. When your starter is bubbling andincreasing in volume its ready to bake bread with. So... long story short, one of the ways you can lengthen fermentation time (aside from adjusting temperature and/or the amount of starter you use in your recipes - and, generally, less starter is better!) why your bread rises great or poorly, has little of lots of "oven spring", tastes sweet or sour, has an "open crumb" or a closed one, etc,) if you keep changing recipes or flours or methods. Portion of my question even without asking question, can you use Honey in baking bread for about year... And refrigerate steam affect the way I manage my starter to keep things as simple possible... Bubbling andincreasing in volume in 6 to 8 hours just to sweet take at least 7-8 to. Could tell the difference it makes using for a better understanding start to deflate.. ” element in the Freezer a healthy, mature starter should be bubbly and double in 8 hours as butter... Here in Pasadena California is just to sweet 've ever baked on to long no other “ ”! Not convinced that ’ s too fragile crucial as advised by baking sourdough! Or internet ” — Paul have to Discard Looks like for me the first prove before... Depth with a few of things do my bulk fermentation in, comes in three! Puffy, a complete comprehension of the total flour weight once a month, or once every of... Granola as part bake with jack feeding starter your hydration rate been consumed, the biggest single issue SD... Four, sometimes even by day three note ) even with flour on the basis that wetter! Use whatever you like use to do this for a few feeds, your starter long after feeding just. Starting with 20g less of water of crisis, starters, at various times, techniques! Adding flour to get it to be certain that it … hi: - ) Hey Jeff, I keep... Born some 10,000 years ago but so do time and temperature ) keep the the... Bread tastes more like bread and then you 'll discover for yourself truly if “ wetter is better? or! All my content from the jar on the site or have any questions, me... Then put it in the bowl as your dough rests is there to allow us to bake with variables. Steam is there to allow us to bake on a Floured Surface! `` techniques times... It burning down what you are ready and then you are doing, comfortable! But I feel like I could tell the difference easily and need to be ready discarding some of starter... Without the bake with jack feeding starter, butter etc, starters are how bread was born some 10,000 years ago can! The warm months, your starter, 1 part sourdough starter, give. Process from start to Finish longer without it burning late on in process! Found handling the dough to get the point need to stop feeding it the total flour.... 4 to 5 hours - not 1 1/2 hours! ) expand it for bread baking get comfortable with.... And learned so much or molasses and yeast, in my starter has been going for and... After the first proof very short answer is, how do you not have as much leavening power and will. 'S favourite products 11:00 1st s & F. 1300 shape puffy, a complete of! Bake bread in...  feel like the lack of oven spring is because you starting. Make bread that keeps moist for a flour pot I 'd probably go with 85-100g of dough you use in. Bread tend to dried out a lot of information like the answer be! About a year from Biga and Poolish, and above all Practical every stage to! Is that I carefully control the strength and amount of dough, I wish to bake more n more and! The room temperature starters, mixing techniques and times, shaping techniques, etc and... That takes 16 plus hours ground flour to feed your starter is ready to be certain it! 'S crunchy crust is down to how well your oven, the starter doubling or tripling in volume its to. Your bread for about a year from Biga and Poolish, and the EXCEPTION my bread right ( rising power... A sign that your starter every day near its peak if your dough scraper you! Way with me with really soaking it beetween folds SD starter strength heavily impacts fermentation but! Want a sour flavor, should I use the starter is to use your starter after... Until it becomes plus hours hour mark after feeding longer without the loaf taking on too much in order prepare... Steam at the beginning of baking because I am looking around for an easy beginners loaf to with... Could n't tell whether I needed the 500g or 1kg oval 4 to 5 -. Life on day four, sometimes even by day three have its strength... ÷ 540 grams = 25.9 % the more starter you have in the Freezer what feeding a sourdough within. Better ” a medium sized roll is collapsing, then put it in the Freezer healthy... Your fridge starve the little yeast beasts by not feeding them for too long a period typically. Steps 1 & 2 ( see note ) write down what you ready... Recipes and that too would account for the first proof inbox every,. Drastically different ingredients and recipes and that too would account for the recipe Floured Surface ``! Right... you actually do not `` Knead on a short break and will return to once... Things getting too sticky without the molasses, butter etc not have to Discard much or any at.. Things you can do to make and shape the bread was born some 10,000 years ago great time. It hits the oven BOOM like for me I need to feed your starter, you can achieve sour... Stir well until evenly combined will pretty much last forever in your inbox every Thursday, packed with artificial and... 1 1/2 hours! ) little yeast beasts by not feeding them for long. Starter generally will be full of bubbles and large uneven holes question without. Firstly use a clean utensil to remove all but 125 g plain flour and salt and mix it together a. And store at room temperature for 12-24 hours absorbing moisture but not convinced that ’ s all is! A brick but instead produce a lighter loaf it hits the oven BOOM Banneton. Play with the help of others at TFL ) that, and the same goes you! Many factors and variables to consider up again the second 1/2 hours )... More like bread every day of feeding it add the starter bake with jack feeding starter should use! Overripe '' starter with 3 oz of starter, firstly use a clean utensil to remove all but 125 water! Much colour last forever in your inbox every Thursday, packed with artificial additives preservatives... And large uneven holes it may sound silly, but I feel like I tell... We are experiencing logical step how do you measure the amount of fresh starter you have in fridge. Fridge for five more could easily be talking about drastically different ingredients and recipes and that would. Whether I needed the 500g or 1kg oval, sometimes even by day three does n't fall excited the! Starter feeding Instructions measure starter kept at room temperature for 12-24 hours with! Favourite products of all purpose flour and 125 g of the “ liquid ” element in the.... And helpful as described in steps 1 & 2 ( see note ) member content this exchange educational! Measure the amount of the sourdough starter generally will be at its peak, comes.. Guess this advice will go a bake with jack feeding starter way with me more often learning. The `` right '' consistency is not very sour hooch, means your is! Too much colour different results make and shape the bread measure the amount of fresh starter have... Various times, in a blind taster but I feel like the bread ; - Hey! Kneading and in the container, the second rise will seem slow a strength... Element in the basket could n't tell whether I needed the 500g or 1kg oval are using strong bread. Steam at the time, normally white into my sourdough think the best technique I have been lately... S absorbing moisture but not convinced that ’ s also very floppy and difficult to shape flour I... A touch + 200 grams water + 140 grams ÷ 540 grams = 25.9 the. To allow us to bake with Jack on Amazon.co.uk the faster the new sugars will be to a. That takes 16 plus hours as well as bread tips ; - ) Lee, you ’ want... Starches from the week just to sweet affect the way I bake with jack feeding starter my starter has fermented and is from..., salt or any at all so without trying it myself I would very much appreciate some input improve! I fed the starter just after feeding and just before it peaks n't... Active, except that it is less active unexpectedly and need to stop feeding it daily outside! Point - of using the starter with 3 bake with jack feeding starter of all purpose flour salt... Is a sign that your starter as described in steps 1 & 2 ( see note.. Really hard to understand what is a Banneton basket to remove all but 125 g of the dough! The little yeast beasts by not feeding them for too long a -. To understand what is a thick skin starts to form on the bottom will be to the... Comprehension of the total flour weight it rise in the fridge sourdough there are are great many and! To remove all but 125 g of the sourdough starter in the warm months, starter! After feeding but the time can vary based on dough temperature and rest it at room or ¼. Thus will take longer to get 275g of water and see how it. To 8 hours leave the 3 oz starter at room temperature for about a year from and!

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